Dr. Jen’s Take On “Don’t Quit This Day Job”

workmom blogs
RSS feed icon Browse the topics @home and @work. Engage with leading bloggers who offer advice on family and career as well as share stories about our rich workmom experience. Share your comments.

engage!

Not a mom blogger?
Register for an account
blog directory

browse by

Recent Posts

Playdates with Dr. Jen

By Dr. Jen Canter
Dr. Jennifer Canter, aka “Dr. Jen®,” is a double board certified pediatrician, professor, researcher, educator, published author, nationally recognized expert in child safety and, last but not least, mom to two pairs of twins. In her spare time, she’s an entrepreneur–in 2008 she invented the patent-pending U-Play Mat (a U-shaped play mat that promotes interactive play), now licensed by Sassy Baby® for the mass-market baby toy category, with additional versions for education and special needs in the works with other distributors. Dr. Jen believes play should permeate parenthood, from exercising and eating well to using love and laughter to raise happy, well-adjusted little people who can tackle anything life hand them with creativity and self-assurance. She herself was raised by a single mom with two younger brothers – and credits her mom for teaching her problem-solving skills. As one of a handful of child abuse pediatricians nationwide, Dr. Jen has seen the darker side of parenthood–so she is even more dedicated to leading a life filled with light and balance. Her days as a working mom are hectic, but are also filled with passion, purpose and playfulness. As Dr. Jen chronicles her journey as a professional and a parent, she shares her hard-earned wisdom with warmth and a healthy dose of humor. You can find more about her at https://www.playthisway.com/index.php?

Dr. Jen’s Take On “Don’t Quit This Day Job”

Posted on June 14, 2011
print

This is a response to the Sunday, June 11th Op-Ed piece in the New York Times - Don't Quit This Day Job by Dr. Karen Sibert.

I’m also a doctor and a mother of four, Dr. Sibert.  You are an anesthesiologist, and I chose a different profession – a pediatrician with a specialty in child abuse.  But we understand each other’s stressors and how hard we worked to get where we are – both personally and professionally.  And I hope you are happy, because I am.  You took your board exams in 1987, when I was a junior in high school – so your children are older, and I’m in the thick of the soup of parenting.

I, like you, made the decision to work full time.

Some pieces from your article are important for us all to understand, and I do respect, there is a going to be a doctor shortage, medical education is supplemented by the government. You present a compelling argument and important “big picture” information.

But you are missing the point about what a good doctor is all about.  Here’s my take on it, Dr. Sibert:

1.       An unhappy, stressed out, unbalanced mother is not going to be an effective doctor.  That’s that.

2.     No female college student, who decides to be a doctor when she’s still a teenager, can predict what happens in 20 years.  Did you know you’d be a mother of four?  Did you understand the stressors and work/life balance?

3.     What about parents with specific reasons for needing to stay home or work part time – a child with special needs, a partner with another high-powered job.

4.     You target the piece at women, and your statistics support your argument.  But your words are highly irrational & miss the boat when it comes to real-life decisions mothers and fathers make.

5.     I would focus on educating women (and men) on making career CHOICES in medicine that optimize their expectations for family life. I knew I wanted to be a mother, I loved surgery, I did not become a surgeon.  That was learned through mentoring. Let’s focus on supporting young women (and men) in the early years of medical training to make the best choices.

With all due respect, as a fellow doctor/mom of four, get real, Dr. Sibert!

comments (13)
Write a comment

The women complained that

markmom's picture
by markmom on August 17, 2013
The women complained that when they protested,simple thin legs diet detoxification managers offered modest apologies without taking strong measureswater cause health tips to improve what the women said was a hostile work environment.

I would focus on educating

lylykhalinh13's picture
by lylykhalinh13 on August 15, 2013
I would focus on educating women (and men) on making career CHOICES in medicine that optimize their expectations for family life. I knew I wanted to be a mother máy tập cơ bụng

But to say that being a

timemart23's picture
by timemart23 on August 12, 2013
But to say that being a doctor is a one-size-fits-all proposition and that women should not even consider it unless they can commit early on to a full-time career (what is that in medicine, 80 hours a week or more?) seems antiquated to me. Both women and men who become MDs should have some flexibility in terms of making their work and life fit their individual needs. Because a doctor chooses to cut back hours and work "part-time" (whatever that means), does that mean she/he is not committed to patients? Does that mean she/he has cheated U.S. taxpayers? I don't think so. If you tell young women not to choose a medical career unless they're absolutely committed to full-time, all the time, is to not only throw work life progress back decades, but also, it seems to me, to seriously cut the supply of talented, nurturing candidates for the medical profession. There has to be a middle ground here. máy trồng rau mầm hộp đựng cơm

When someone writes an piece

dubturbo's picture
by dubturbo on May 04, 2013
When someone writes an piece of writing he/she maintains the idea of a user in his/her brain that how a user can understand it. Therefore that's why this paragraph is outstdanding. Thanks! dubturbo reviews

who can tackle anything life

thanhch3's picture
by thanhch3 on April 26, 2013
who can tackle anything life hand them with creativity and self-assurance. She herself was raised by a single mom with two younger brothers – and credits her mom for teaching her problem-solving skills. As one of a handful of child abuse pediatricians nationwide,Đại lý vé máy bay Mua vé máy bay vé máy bay giá rẻ Hi there, simply had been aware of the blog right through Google, and additionally also situated it is really interesting. I am going to observe away for brussels. I is grateful whenever you take along about this excellent in long-term. Lots of various other folks is benefited because an outcome of your authoring. Cheers! vé máy bay đi đà nẵng vé máy bay đi đà lạt

The American Council on

mommd's picture
by mommd on June 27, 2011
The American Council on Graduate Medical Education (ACGME)called for an 80hr/wk restriction in 2003 and the number of hours trainees (residents and fellows) worked decreased dramatically. In some hospitals, where there used to be a resident in the hospital at all times,they were replaced with physician “extenders”, nurse practitioners and physician assistants who have much less training. In order to meet the workforce hour rules, some surgical attendings had to take the in-house call previously done by the residents as attendings had NO restrictions on work hours. This focus on work force hours came out of the concern that tired, overworked physicians in training made mistakes and with restrictions in hours and mandated rest time, patient care would improve. This was not just for women physicians or for certain specialties, it was mandated across the board. While arguments exist among faculty and learners, that some of these restrictions have significantly impacted teaching and learning in medicine, there is no doubt that being able to sleep for 8 hours once every 24 hours, makes life more livable. While these restrictions started at the training level, the impact has moved up as well to the practitioner level. During the student and resident’s education and training, there is a focus on a limited number of hours at work that is mandated, why then would one leave training and go against that training by working 100+ hours ? It is not the women physicians who have mandated this rule, as Dr. Sibert suggests, but the governing body for medical education. Therefore to blame women physicians for the physician shortage is a very simplistic, shortsighted argument that does not take into account the realistic aspects of population growth as well as recent changes in education and training. It is not women physicians who have created the shortage, but physicians as a whole have recognized the need for balance in their lives. At almost every annual meeting for specialty groups, there are workshops on work life balance. These workshops are attended by both men and women as physicians learn to cope with the demands of an ever changing field as well as a life with family responsibilities. Do we really want to go back to a time, when only one parent had the responsibility to the family while the other worked 100+ hours per week consistently? The part-time physician that Dr. Siebert describes is a misnomer. Many “part-time” physicians work 40+hrs/week, what most Americans think of as full-time. One of my friends recently was commenting on how hard it was for her as she worked full time. “You know”, she said, “I have to work three 12 hour days per week and that kind of full time work is tough!” My husband, also a physician, and I looked knowingly at each other and I knew what he was thinking. “Only three 12 hour days a week?”

Here is a comment which was

Helen Jonsen's picture
by Helen Jonsen on June 16, 2011

Here is a comment which was emailed to me from a pediatric oncologist (who asked to withhold her name, but I know who she is)

I am waiting for someone to mention the prototypical primary care doctor and his 4-day-week--where Wednesday was the day to play golf or go fishing. I am just so disheartened that this kind of debate inevitably degenerates into woman versus woman. It demeans us all.
Dr. Jen, I am the mother of 5 and a pediatric oncologist who routinely works until 1am at home (the only redeeming feature of an electronic medical record!).
Nonetheless, I will be volunteering at the colonial fair in full costume this week on Friday, my notorious "day-off" (except of course, when I am travelling to conferences, responsible for the inpatient service or on call). I sincerely applaud you, and all women physicians, who try to strike the balance. I counsel many young women about work-family issues.
I give my disclaimer at the outset: I have lots of opinions, but no
answers. I explain you can have it all--just not at the same time. And finally, whatever decision you make, it will be the right one for you.
Amazingly, young men seek me out for the same advice. To me, having one day to not come into the hospital helped me pace myself, drive a few carpools and hand out pizza slices. It’s amazing what you learn from the back seat of a car. I more than made up for this on weekends and nights.
It was not for a few years that I realized I should not be paid 80%.
There was nothing I wasn't doing that my colleagues were--they just
called it an "academic day." Remarkably, it was another woman who told me: "You can't take a part-time salary for full-time work; why would I get paid a full-time salary if they can get the same work out of you for less? Ultimately, you are hurting other women."
It also leaves me to sincerely question Dr. Sibert's statistics on productivity. What is the metric: Quantity and face time, or quality and patient satisfaction and, over what duration of time? Personally, I wanted to be in it for the long haul.
My profession teaches me that if you are lucky, your own
children will grow up and become independent sooner than you think. That period of time is much shorter than the career for which I trained. I think that mature, experienced doctors are indeed the best clinicians.
But to get there is a marathon, not a sprint. Maybe (some) women are just wiser. A flexible system will keep them work force. But no good will ever come of women bashing other women for making difficult decisions.
-- Dr. J

The New York TImes Motherlode

Helen Jonsen's picture
by Helen Jonsen on June 16, 2011

The New York TImes Motherlode blog continued this discussion today with some interesting comments from male doctors as well.

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/more-on-women-and-medicine/

Thanks for your post, Dr.

LindaBrodskyMD's picture
by LindaBrodskyMD on June 16, 2011
Thanks for your post, Dr. Jen. You bring up great points from a doctor in the trenches--a perspective that we share. In addition to my own "day job," I work directly with women’s physicians to advocate for exactly what Dr. Sibert is condemning: flexibility in the work place. Dr. Sibert misses the mark on several points, so I thought I’d chime in with a few thoughts... 1) The work styles and habits Dr. Sibert attributes to women physicians are not unique to this demographic; in fact, research has shown that the desire for work-life balance is generational, not gendered. (It’s sought by Gen X and Y, and crosses gender lines.) The resulting tension in the healthcare workplace is a function of the lag time between society’s evolving demands and healthcare institutions’ willingness and ability to meet them. 2) Dr. Sibert contends that because medical education is supported by federal and state tax money, women physicians are indebted to taxpayers in a way that other professionals are not. Any conversation about money and women physicians, however, is incomplete if it does not include a discussion of the pay gap that exists between them and their male counterparts. From that perspective alone, one could argue that women are entitled to work less hours to compensate for the discrepancy- not that this is the reason they do. 3) In attempt to illustrate that women’s productivity is less than men’s, Dr. Sibert cites irrelevant quantitative measures of productivity, such as hours worked, number of patients seen, and likelihood of taking extended leaves of absence. In a profession where people’s lives are at stake, it would seem more appropriate to assess qualitative measures, such as positive patient outcomes, safety records, and patients feeling "cared-for." Women, independent of hours worked, are continually shown to be superior at achieving these results. 4) Good patient care should be the primary rite of passage into a profession that depends on it. The fundamental issue here is not whether it’s wrong or right for women physicians to work non-traditional schedules- that is not for anyone but the physician herself to decide- it’s that the structure of the healthcare workplace is not aligned with the realities of the evolving healthcare workforce.

This is directed at Martina

dyanhes's picture
by dyanhes on June 16, 2011
This is directed at Martina W. I am a pediatrician and a working mother. I do not know if you live in the United States, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Undergraduate and medical school studies are not subsidized by the government. Maybe you live in Europe or Israel, where there is socialized medicine and the government pays for students to become doctors. However, in the US, unless you come from wealthy families, all doctors take out personal loans to put themselves through school. I would like to know who subsidized me while I went into debt to become a doctor. I only just finished paying off my loans at the age of 39. I still do not own a home. I chose to work in an inner city where I am paid significantly less, as the majority of patients are on Medicaid. But I do it because I love what I do. I am a assistant professor of pediatrics and most of my students have over $200,000 debt (at least) when they finish medical school. Not to mention residency, where they get paid pennies. So please, feel free to show me your tax money that paid for my education, I would like a refund for all the money I personally spent to dedicate my life to children. When I read Dr. Sibert's article, I felt that she was a guilt ridden woman who chooses to put others down in order to elevate her own self worth. Why is her choice better than a part-time doctor? If it worked for her, great. She also makes about 4 times the salary most general practitioners make, so maybe she did not want to give up that salary. For me, I chose to work part-time when my kids were small because it worked for my family. Luckily, I work with like minded doctors and we made our schedules work together and are patients were more than satisfied with out efforts and their medical care. When I chose to go part-time, I sacrificed a lot, both academically and financially. I lost my benefits, life insurance, health insurance, and clinic position. But what I gained to be with my children, for me, was priceless. Now, am I not telling every mother to do this...no, but it was my choice. Dr. Sibert is also a sexist because what about my gay male colleagues, who also chose to go part-time at some points in their career. Would they have to disclose on their medical school application that they plan on being active parents too? She cannot dictate whether female doctors have to work full time or not. While we are all in residency, we all fulfill our duties equally. What we chose for our professional lives thereafter, is a personal choice. Dr. Canter is spot on in her assessment of the article.

Dr. Sibert's op-ed in the NYT

WMDeputy's picture
by WMDeputy on June 16, 2011

Dr. Sibert's op-ed in the NYT disturbed me greatly. I felt she made many valid points about subsidized education and medical-profession statistics. But to say that being a doctor is a one-size-fits-all proposition and that women should not even consider it unless they can commit early on to a full-time career (what is that in medicine, 80 hours a week or more?) seems antiquated to me. Both women and men who become MDs should have some flexibility in terms of making their work and life fit their individual needs. Because a doctor chooses to cut back hours and work "part-time" (whatever that means), does that mean she/he is not committed to patients? Does that mean she/he has cheated U.S. taxpayers? I don't think so. If you tell young women not to choose a medical career unless they're absolutely committed to full-time, all the time, is to not only throw work life progress back decades, but also, it seems to me, to seriously cut the supply of talented, nurturing candidates for the medical profession. There has to be a middle ground here.

Thank you for your comment,

Dr. Jennifer Canter's picture
by Dr. Jennifer Canter on June 16, 2011

Thank you for your comment, Martina. I believe you misunderstood the focus of my piece regarding teenagers and mentoring.  High school grads go to college and soon therafter start pre-med training, in their late teens.  That is when the decision to become a doctor happens.  I was referring to the (in my opinion, irrational) perspective Dr. Sibert has that a teenager can make a career choice affecting the rest of their family life without knowing the variables?  Instead I stress mentoring for doctors by older doctors (such as Dr. Sibert and me) so that young docs understand areas of medicine (surgery vs. pediatrics for example) and make educated medical career choices WITHIN MEDICINE. My point was the same as yours - we agree - that women and men (doctors or not) can't predict the future and may not have a choice to work part time or full time for different reasons.  We're on the sme page, Martina!  Keep the comments coming, we love them here at Working Mother.  XOXO Dr. Jen

With all due respect to Dr.

Martina W's picture
by Martina W on June 14, 2011
With all due respect to Dr. Jen, I think she needs to "get real" because she seems to live in a fantasy world that few of us actually inhabit. 1. None who is unhappy, stressed out and unbalanced is going to be as effective at any job. However, most of us don't have the option (financially or otherwise) to cut back to part-time or decide to stay at home just so we can be more "balanced". 2. Dr. Sibert, in her article, did not ask "teenage girls" to do anything, so why is Dr. Jen even mentioning that? Dr. Sibert's comments are addressed at grown women who, one would hope, have put enough though into their career choice to be able to commit to working full-time at it, especially after getting a subsidized education. 3. No one is criticizing someone who stays home with a child with special needs. And how is having a "partner with a high powered job" relevant? Hopefully someone who has gone through all the work and training to become a doctor doesn't just decide to stay home because hubby is a lawyer. If that's the case, Dr. Jen is just proving Dr. Sibert's point. 4. Dr. Jen declares Dr. Sibert's words to be "highly irrational"--how so? Dr. Sibert is basically saying that the taxpayers have a right to expect that those who have gotten their medical educations subsidized take their profession (and their moral obligation to those who helped pay for their education) seriously enough to actually practice it full-time for a substantial period of time rather than just jump off to a part-time track just because they decide to start a family. How is that irrational?
Your Comment
All submitted comments are subject to the license terms set forth in our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use